[personal profile] rj_anderson
I read Books 1-4 aloud to my husband just a couple months after GoF came out -- he enjoys the stories but doesn't read for pleasure -- and tonight we finally started on OotP. I have great fun doing this, because it appeals to the buried actress in me: I try to do as professional-sounding and nuanced a reading as possible, including all the voices and accents. (It's probably a good thing I've never listened to the HP audios, as they'd only make me self-conscious, or else mess up my personal catalogue of character voices.)

An especially good thing about reading out loud is that it forces me to read and notice every word, which I wouldn't ordinarily do. Close reading also yields new questions and insights, and I hope to share those here on a semi-regular basis -- though I can't guarantee I'll cover every chapter. But I can make a start on it, at least:

CHAPTER ONE: DUDLEY DEMENTED

I noticed something about Harry in this chapter that I hadn't the first time around. Sure, he's still suffering grief and anger over Cedric's death and Voldemort's return; and of course it's natural for him to be upset that Ron and Hermione seem to be having some sort of mysterious fun without him. But to me it looks as though even at that, Harry's reactions are a bit extreme.

The reckless, violent turn of his thoughts as he's sitting on the swing, for instance, when he's hoping Dudley and his gang will take him on so he can humiliate Dudley and hex the others. This is not the Harry we've seen before -- and though he does remember he's not supposed to practice magic and thinks better of the scheme, it's only after he realizes that Dudley and his friends aren't going to come his way in any case. Also, the description of the satisfied, cathartic feeling he gets from mocking and threatening Dudley later on rings a warning bell for me.

I don't think this is just fifteen-year-old Harry finally acknowledging a lot of pent-up anger: that's part of it, no doubt, but it doesn't account for all of it. I really think this is Voldemort's spirit of viciousness and cruelty expressing itself through Harry, and that cloud of evil influence hangs over Harry from the beginning to the end of the book. Even after Voldemort's direct influence has gone, the aftereffects still linger, and then of course there's Sirius's death, and Harry's realization of his own grim destiny, colouring the world an even deeper shade of black. So I don't think it'll be until Book Six that we find out what Harry, on his own, is really like.

I'm not saying that I think Book Six Harry is going to be a happy, sunny guy. I'm quite sure he'll continue to have significant emotional struggles, and to express his anger and frustration. But I don't think we'll see quite the same narrow-minded, self-absorbed, venomous and aggressive Harry -- I think his perception of the world, and the needs and feelings of those around him, is going to open up again somewhat. And I for one am looking forward to that.

On the other hand, it really is clever what JKR has done with the Harry-POV narration in this book. Once more she shows herself adept at filtering the reader's perceptions through a distorted lens, without ever making it too obvious that she's doing it. Only in retrospect, or on a second reading, does it become evident that Harry is under a baneful influence and that his view of the world is even more skewed than usual as a result.

Comments, anyone?
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Date: 2003-08-12 07:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wahlee-98.livejournal.com
This is about the same reaction I had to Harry's emotional state on the second read-through. His reactions seem almost unconcious-- what he's thinking mentally has very little bearing on the way he's acting and the emotions he has. They surprise even him sometimes. Definitely seeing evidence of Voldemort's channeling his own frustration into Harry without either of them realizing it.

Date: 2003-08-12 08:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rj-anderson.livejournal.com
His reactions seem almost unconcious-- what he's thinking mentally has very little bearing on the way he's acting and the emotions he has.

Yes, exactly. The anger and hostility's not rational -- in fact it's often counter-rational. He's feeling what Voldemort's feeling at the time, and although it's easy for him to put it down to his own hard circumstances, it really doesn't have anything to do with him.

The other thing I noticed is that right from Chapter One, Harry is muttering about his own rights and his own glory in a way he's never done before. "Hadn't he done...? Hadn't he been the one to...?" It's a very Voldemort kind of way of looking at the world -- "everybody had better give ME the attention that I deserve!" A little bit of self-pity under the circumstances would be natural, but not a solipsism this full-blown, I think.

I think that's part of what scared me ...

Date: 2003-08-12 09:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] necessaryspace.livejournal.com
... how egotistical Harry became in Book Five. A lot of the accomplisments he kept yelling about to Hermione and Ron occured b/c Hermione and Ron helped him. W/out those two, Harry probably would have died the first year, and Voldemort would now possess the Sorcerer's Stone.

Mostly, it scared me b/c, w/ that attitude, Harry would lose the very people he needed to survive any future battles.

But that does answer my question of where all that "look at me!" stuff was coming from. I hope that you do a review like this for every chapter. =)

Re: I think that's part of what scared me ...

Date: 2003-08-12 11:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sff-corgi.livejournal.com
That reminds me of something which perplexed me -- here he's all 'I did this, and I did that, and they should remember how sturdy I am...'

Then in the first DA meeting, it's 'But that was just a coincidence, and I had help, and that was an accident....'

You know what I mean? It's like he couldn't make up his mind exactly how studly he was.

Re: I think that's part of what scared me ...

Date: 2003-08-13 04:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rj-anderson.livejournal.com
Well, I think the DA meeting was one of the times when he wasn't Under the Influence. I'd need to look at the chapter (or possibly the whole book) again to see if a reason for this is given, but even if it's not explained, it might just be a time at which Voldemort's feelings were not so strong, or he was bending his thoughts on someone else. Or perhaps that being surrounded by friends who are looking to him for help strengthens Harry's own personality and reminds him of what really matters.

Re: I think that's part of what scared me ...

Date: 2003-08-13 09:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] necessaryspace.livejournal.com
Exactly. Half the time, he seems to be believing in all his own hype (ironically, he acts exactly how Snape always accuses him of acting: like he's better than everyone else). When he's not acting like that, he just keeps saying, "oh, I'm so lucky."

He basically only uses the egotism to get what he wants, but when other people call him on it, saying he could really help, he backs off.

Date: 2003-08-12 08:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jalara.livejournal.com
It's probably a good thing I've never listened to the HP audios, as they'd only make me self-conscious,

I can't imagine ANYONE doing a better "Hem, hem..." than you. I wish I had it on tape. :D

As for the Voldemort influence on Harry, even in ch 1, I can really see that that is probably what is going on. Thanks for pointing that out. It will be interesting to see how Harry battles "The Dark Side" in future books - it is his destiny. Will he become aware of the voices that are not his own and be able to distinguish between them? I look forward to seeing how JKR handles this.

Date: 2003-08-12 11:04 pm (UTC)
ext_6531: (Elektra with sai)
From: [identity profile] lizbee.livejournal.com
I've always believed that Voldemort's effects on Harry went beyond that handy Parseltongue business. He just lurks in Harry's mind, occasionally egging him onto Darker and greater heights. I hadn't spotted the incipient megalomania in Harry's demands for a bit of credit, though. Brrr...

Date: 2003-08-12 11:45 pm (UTC)
ext_7651: (Default)
From: [identity profile] idlerat.livejournal.com
I don't believe it's Voldemort's influence. I've always found Harry to be a character with a bit of a short fuse and quite a bit of pride, though of course he has generally been kind and more directed toward others in previous books. He has always been surprisingly free of self-doubt, given the way the Dursleys treated him.

so he can humiliate Dudley and hex the others.

When I re-read this, all I could think of was Snape's Worst and the subsequent characterization. Especially *humiliate*. I think that's the point of this episode--the future of that relationship (between Snape and Harry).

This was the Black book: House of Black to Death of Black. I have no doubt it will be the nadir of the series.

Date: 2003-08-13 05:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rj-anderson.livejournal.com
I don't believe it's Voldemort's influence.

Yes, Harry's shown anger and pride in previous books, but not so much when it came to his own accomplishments. In all the previous books he's been determined ("Nobody's going to do this, so I've got to") but also self-doubting in a lot of ways -- look at his attitude to being in the Triwizard Tournament, for instance, his fatalistic conviction that he's going to make a fool of himself or get himself killed. Ron and Hermione have always had to encourage and support him. And when praised for his heroism he's characteristically underplayed his own importance.

Now, however, he's angry that nobody's acknowledging how important he is or how much he's done. It's a very sudden change, I think -- too sudden to be accounted for by merely turning fifteen. And unlike depression or fear, it's not the kind of thing you could see as a natural outcome of Cedric's death and Voldemort's return. What about either one of those two things would be making Harry think more about himself and what he deserves?

I'm not saying I think Book 5 Harry is 100% Voldemort, or even 50%. Of necessity the influence has to be subtle, or Harry or his friends would notice and question it. As it is, Ron and Hermione are surprised, but they assume Harry's just "been through a lot lately". As does Harry himself.

No, I'd say it's more like 75% Harry and 25% Voldemort, with Voldemort playing on and enhancing parts of Harry (such as his desire for fame and glory) that would otherwise stay well below the surface. Yes, in many ways his behaviour is typical of a fifteen-year-old boy, but not in all ways, and I do think that JKR is telling us right from Chapter One (where she deliberately draws our attention to the fact that Harry's scar has been throbbing a lot lately) that after what happened in the graveyard -- specifically taking Harry's blood -- Voldemort is connected to Harry on a deeper level than ever before.

Date: 2003-08-13 12:00 am (UTC)
pauraque: bird flying (peter)
From: [personal profile] pauraque
This is an interesting interpretation, and certainly possible, but it didn't occur to me. I didn't feel like Harry was unusually hostile or self-contradictory for a 15-year-old, especially one who's had the kind of trauma he has. I think he acted about the same way I did when I was a moody, solipsistic 15-year-old boy, up to and including the sadistic fantasies about one's enemies. That's pretty much par for the course for teenaged boys who aren't under the happiest of circumstances, I'd guess.

Date: 2003-08-13 11:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sannalim.livejournal.com
I, too, was disturbed by Harry's thoughts towards Dudley and his gang in this chapter. I was, I must admit, rather amused by the teasing, but I didn't like Harry's desire to magically attack the other boys. I also was disturbed by Harry's "me, me, me" attitude.

I'm not certain that Voldemort's influence over Harry's mind is gone, though. I need to read Book Five again, but it seemed to me like Harry still needs to learn Occlumency to block Voldemort out of his mind.

Someone else mentioned Snape's Worst Memory in connexion with Harry's thoughts about Dudley, and that reminded me of something I've been pondering for a bit. I think that in Book One, when Dumbledore tells Harry that Severus and James were "rather like yourself and Mr Malfoy," he was pulling a Ben Kenobi on him--telling him the truth "from a certain point of view." After reading Snape's Worst Memory, it seems to me that Harry is the Severus analog and Draco is the James analog, and not the other way 'round as we (and Harry) have assumed.

Date: 2003-08-13 02:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rj-anderson.livejournal.com
Yes, I came across the Harry=Snape and Draco=James argument a few weeks ago and fell madly in love with it. I think it's another example of just how cleverly JKR twists our assumptions against us. She doesn't lie to us, she gives us all the information we need to draw the right conclusion, but at the same time she knows that Harry's preconceptions (and ours) will lead us to identify himself with his father and Draco with Snape, rather than the correct way around.

This kind of brilliance is why I love these books...

I can't believe I didn't SEE that....

Date: 2003-08-14 10:05 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Aside from the fact that this theory makes this book about 150% more creepy than it already was--

I have to say (after some pondering) that I agree with this theory. Amazingly, in all the discussion over on the Sugerquill forums and other places, this particular explanation for Harry's emotional state hasn't even come up. Yet it's so much simpler and more elegant than the convoluted explanations about Harry being 15 and post-traumatized, however true those may be.

Ack. I'm just finishing my second read of OotP, and it's amazing how much evidence I'm seeing for this even in the last few chapters (just read Dept. of Mysteries...can't quite bring myself to read Beyond the Veil tonight). I might be inclined to be skeptical, but the unconscious reaction Harry has to Dumbledore *throughout* the book just about clinches it. It's chilling...I mean, obviously it's not like Harry is under Imperious or anything, but once Voldemort figures out what's going on, it's almost worse, seeing Harry's noble insticts and his worst fears being manipulated, knowing that while the choices may be his, the emotional "information" on which he is basing them may not be.

Interesting, then, that it is emotion (or love? that's no clearer than the means of Sirius' death) which enables him to resist Voldemort's possession in the end....

Thanks for turning my read of this book upside down and giving it a shake!

Sarah Izhilzha

Date: 2003-09-13 04:33 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Reading this discussion about Harry`s reactions in Order of the Phoenix only confirms what i`d suspected since the first time I read the book.

It`s not just Harry that`s being subtly influenced or mentally tempted by Voldemort in this way, to believe his fears and to distrust the truth: half of Hogwarts and the Ministry, from Cornelius Fudge down, are being tempted in this way (virtually everyone`s reactions in this book are unusually exaggerated) and Harry comes out of it better than most, mainly, as Dumbledore hints, because his heart is in the right place: Harry actually came very close to being prodded into leaving the safety of Grimauld Place by some very peculiar and twisted mental logic, and only stayed because he "still" trusted Dumbledore, in spite of feeling so aggrieved with him; moreover, Harry came very very close to being inwardly persuaded that Hermione and Ron were not on his side, and this, again, happened "before" Voldemort was aware of just how close their mental connection actually was.

Harry escaped this temptation, barely. Others (like Fudge) were not so lucky. I suspect that the success of Voldemort`s temptations in this regard depend on some moral weakness in the victim. In Harry`s case, the jealousy, bitterness and resentment Voldemort tried to work on in Harry were not quite strong enough to defeat his loyalty, although it was really quite a close call. In Fudge`s case, Voldemort had all the Minister`s genuine ambition, love of power and jealousy of Dumbledore`s greater power and knowledge to work on. He was most successful with Dolores Umbrage (whose reactions throughout were by far the most exaggerated of all) because her genuine pettiness, spite and vindictiveness meant she could put up barely any resistance at all to whatever insinuation he planted in her.

But the whole of Hogwarts was affected. No one listened to the Sorting Hat`s warnings, nor to Dumbledore`s earlier warning that Voldemort`s greatest power or skill was his ability to sow divisions amongst his enemies.

If this is true, then old Barty Crouch`s policy of becoming like Voldemort`s servants to fight them (apart from making the Ministry ultimately as bad as its enemy) would have been ultimately counterprouctive. If Voldemort`s abilities to tempt and sway people and cloud their judgements depend on some sort of moral weakness in them, then the Ministry`s decision to use Unforgivable curses against suspected Death Eaters would have been a potential disaster. To use Dark Curses successfully, you actually have to hate, to fill yourself with Dark passions, and this would have made nearly all the Aurors child`s play for Voldemort to manipulate, even while they thought they were fighting him.

I wonder if this is how Voldemort (even in weakened state) managed to overcome Moody (and Crouch as well) so easily, early in Goblet of Fire. Moody`s paranoia "ought" to have protected him, especially as he was on his own ground.

Not that this sort of mental temptation neccessarily comes from Voldemort, at least not in its ultimate origin: the sorting hat`s song at the start of Order of the Phoenix strongly suggests that something similar happened in the founders` time, and that even Slytherin may have been more the victim of this than the instigator: both he and (later) Voldemort may have been manipulated by some ageless malign presence sowing corruption behind the scenes.

The other thought I had (and I`m wondering if that was the true source of the feeling of triumph that Dumbledore momentarily betrayed at the end of Goblet of Fire) is that just as Harry`s reactions are (at least in part) influenced by Voldemort, perhaps Voldemort`s reactions from now on will be (very slightly) influenced by Harry, as a result of the bond that was confirmed between them when Voldemort restored himself through Harry. This may mean that Voldemort may not be able to behave from now on in such a totally ruthless way as he`d like. There will be something inside restraining him, at least while Harry potter`s alive, and so "neither can live while the other survives."

Alec

Date: 2003-09-13 08:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rj-anderson.livejournal.com
Whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa. WHOA.

(That's a good thing, by the way.)

Alec, you just made my head hurt. Can I quote this back in the main part of the LJ? Because I would love to see what others have to say about it.

I never thought of the possiblility that Voldemort's influence could be *that* widespread. But since he's back now, stronger than ever, and we've seen all along that he has the power to cloud and take over people's minds for his own purposes... did I say whoa? Whoa.

Mind you, that's not to say I think Voldemort is responsible for all the bad/stupid behaviour of the characters in OotP in a "the devil made me do it" kind of way, but it is quite possible that his influence just made them a little more inclined to go along with their darker impulses than they might have been otherwise...

Date: 2003-09-13 08:34 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Oh, please do quote it. It is something I`d like people`s thoughts on.

And yes, it`s not quite a "devil made me do it" sort of thing, in that it requires some willingness on the part of the victim (the success of this sort of mental temptation depends on a certain willingness on the victim`s part to be led astray) but then that`s traditionally true of demonic temptations as well. In fact, several of the powers that Voldemort uses are normally associated with the devil, possession being the most obvious, and it`s interesting to note that these sort of powers have become so natural to him as he now is that possessing the bodies of other people was the only power that was actually left to him after his first fall.

I also think that this is precisely what Mrs Trelawney`s second prophecy meant by Voldemort coming back "greater and more terrible than before." Voldemort probably always had this sort of power of mental suggestion, but it now seems to be greater than it used to be, and I can guess at the reason. The strength of anyone`s magic in HP canon does very often seem to come from the will, and the strength of will that Voldemort developed in himself as he resisted annihilation for thirteen years (remember his explanation in Goblet of Fire) could very likely have left him stronger when he finally came back.

Anyway, it must be this sort of power that Dumbledore meant when (at the start of Philosopher`s Stone, in conversation with McGonagall) he compares his own power with Voldemort`s and says that Voldemort has powers that he himself will never have - even if this "is" because, in Minerva`s words, he`s too noble,

Alec

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