Virtual Friendship

[rj_anderson]

A few thoughts, inspired by this meme: If there is someone on your friends list who makes your world a better place just because they exist and who you would not have met (in real life or not) without the internet, then post this same sentence in your journal.

Personally, I'd say there are a number of people on my f-list who fit that description. Some of you I've even had the privilege of meeting in RL, and finding you just as delightful in person as you are in spirit.

A male person whom I love dearly is of the firm opinion that online relationships are illusory -- that you can't really relate to someone in a meaningful way just through writing. His conviction is that without gesture and tone of voice, without a physical presence in front of you, without a common task, hobby or occupation at which you can work side by side with that person and see how they act even when they aren't using words, you have only a superficial impression of the person you're relating to, and your friendship can never progress beyond vague acquaintance.

Well, that may be true for men -- or most men, anyway -- but I don't think it's equally true for women, for whom verbal communication is primary. Men may (as this male friend of mine claims) need a hockey game or a joint work assignment in order to get to know each other, but most women I know are content to make a pot of tea and a plate of scones and just talk.

So while the Internet may indeed make a very bad deck-building project, I''d say it makes a quite decent pot of tea... and my experience of meeting online friends in RL seems to bear that out.

In the eighteen years I've been talking to people online (yes, I am a net.dinosaur), I have yet to meet someone who was significantly different in the flesh from the way they presented themselves online. That's not to cast any doubt upon the real danger of people misrepresenting themselves for personal gain and/or to take advantage of others -- I know it does happen -- but in the particular message boards, FidoNet echoes, Usenet groups, fan forums, and LiveJournal threads where I've met and befriended people over the years, there really hasn't been much call for that kind of behaviour, and I've never run afoul of it myself.*

And on the whole, I've gained far more than I've lost by making friends online. Some of you I chat with on a near-daily basis: we've laughed together, cried together, prayed together, shared story ideas and bits of writing, and offered sympathy and/or advice as needed. I've received gifts of such generosity and thoughtfulness, some of them from people I'd only just met, that I was moved to tears. Little by little, and sometimes without even realizing I was doing it, I've established a network of contacts with professional writers and editors that has really helped and encouraged me in my writing career. And some of you have done me the honour of coming to visit me and stay in my home for a few days -- an experience that I have always enjoyed and would gladly repeat with any one of you.

So to all my online friends, I raise a cup of virtual tea and say, with all sincerity: to friendship.

--
* Admittedly, I have met a couple of people on line who were unpleasant and even dangerous in RL, but there was plenty of warning for that in the way they spoke and conducted themselves online. My mistake wasn't in thinking those people were different than they really were, it was believing I could help them with their problems and not get hurt. I think that I've learned better now.

Comments

[kerravonsen]

So while the Internet may indeed make a very bad deck-building project, I''d say it makes a quite decent pot of tea.

(grin) Oh yes!

I'm wary of generalizing it to a "men versus women" thing, at least not for all men... but then most of the folks on my flist are women anyway...

I think the obvious counterexample to give people who dismiss internet friendship is all the famous correspondences throughout history. There have been long-distance friendships ever since the invention of a reliable postage service. And the internet is much more immediate than snail-mail.

[rj-anderson.livejournal.com]

Well, that's why I said "may be true" and "most men", because to borrow a phrase from Scott Adams, But Of Course There Are Obvious Exceptions (BOCTAOE). And obviously the generalizations I made aren't true of all women, either.

Anyway, there is admittedly a measure of truth to what my male acquaintance said, in that there are certain areas of a person's character that you can never know until you've been through some significant shared experience which requires them to be visibly, physically present in your life. I think the deepest and strongest friendships/relationships do have to have that kind of RL experience eventually, even if they don't start off in RL.

But to argue as my male friend did that no kind of worthwhile friendship can take place without the RL element -- I'm not prepared to buy into that, your counterexample being one very good reason.

[pgoodman13.livejournal.com]

I think that we two, you and I, are prime examples of it working without having ever met in RL. At least it's true for me. I can't imagine arriving at this very happy place in my life without your wisdom, your humor, your guidance...and in the case of my unfortunate venture into collaboration regarding Devon and Train to Nowhere, your forbearance.

I hope I've made a tenth of the difference to you as you've made to me over the years.

You have made my life a better one, Rivkah, just from you being there for me, and I don't know that I've ever thanked you. So let me do so now. You've been a blessing to me, and I thank you.

[rj-anderson.livejournal.com]

Thank you, Patrick, that's very sweet and I'm touched.

And I had quite forgotten about Train to Nowhere -- was that really the title it ended up with? Heh. I still have my first chapter somewhere, but the rest has gone all fuzzy in my memory.

I'm glad to have met you too, and I'm so happy for you that you've finally found a loving wife and started a family. More Bronte pictures are always welcome.

[pgoodman13.livejournal.com]

There are some new ones up on my blog, once your DSL is back in service.

[izhilzha.livejournal.com]

Oh, this is beautiful and so true. Also, even with not wanting to divide the world strictly into women vs. men, the fact is that I recently had a *heated* argument about this very topic...with two RL male friends of mine. They made exactly the points you raise, to which all I could say was, "Well, fact: one of my closest friends is someone I met online; if you don't understand how that could happen, well, I feel sorry for you."

Friends, no matter the medium (and people used to have friendships over correspondence, back in the day; how is online any different?), are precious...and they are to be found the in the oddest places. Even fandom. :-D

[(Anonymous)]

Not really anonymous - it's Deb. I've had similar experiences with meeting people I've talked with online. Of course the online haunts that I frequent aren't really the type to attract anyone with ulterior motives. My dh calls my online friends my *imaginary* friends although he's come to meet and like some of them as well.

[rj-anderson.livejournal.com]

Hee! My husband does the same thing.

And speaking of RL, I don't know if you're still interested, but next Sunday night my friend and I are doing another concert (we did one in the summer, too, but I was a doofus and forgot to let you know about that one). Anyway, e-mail or PM me on the Fan Forum if you want details...

[serenasnape.livejournal.com]

Have some transatlantic tea. Community occurs where people make it :)

[jalara.livejournal.com]

Cheers, RJ! To Friendship!

Thank you so much for hosting me that delightful weekend in August. I hope we can get together again soon. I so want to meet Paul.

[rj-anderson.livejournal.com]

I would love that! Now that you've moved closer again, please do consider yourself welcome any time. Just let me know when you're free!

I should warn you, though, that this time we will not be able to watch another thrilling episode of "To Serve and Protect", as it has been cancelled. I can't imagine why. ;)

[jalara.livejournal.com]

Oh! Thank You! But I am diappointed about "To Serve and Protect." It was one of the main reasons I wanted to come. *just kidding* But really, H and K's comments were just too good. They MADE that show.

We should talk about a time. I have a new work schedule that lets me have Fri afternoons off. (YAY!) Late March, early April could be good - how about you?

[rj-anderson.livejournal.com]

That could be good for us too, I think -- we don't have anything specific planned during that time (well, except for my birthday on the 23rd, but we don't have anything specific planned for that yet either ).

[penwiper26.livejournal.com]

Cheers to you, my friend of seven years though unmet in the flesh.

[rj-anderson.livejournal.com]

Thank you. And a very appropriate icon! :)

*has just realized own lack of tea icons... a tragic omission*

Internet Relationships

[jamesbow.livejournal.com]

Have you told that male person about Erin and I? Seven years married, nine years together, twelve years known each other, and it would never have happened without the Internet.

Re: Internet Relationships

[rj-anderson.livejournal.com]

Well, he was sort of pontificating at the time, and I hadn't the energy to interrupt him, but next time I certainly shall mention it. :)

I think his counterargument, however, would be that even if you met and fell in love over the net, you would hardly have got as far as actual marriage if you hadn't had at least some RL contact first, and that it would have been quite foolhardy of you if you had done so. Not to mention that there is a point in romantic relationships in which merely virtual contact becomes a frustrating liability rather than an advantage. :) But as I said in another comment above, arguing that the deepest relationships require RL contact is not the same as arguing that relationships without RL contact have no depth or value whatsoever. I think the latter is where my brother's making his mistake.

Re: Internet Relationships

[kerravonsen]

arguing that the deepest relationships require RL contact is not the same as arguing that relationships without RL contact have no depth or value whatsoever

(nods) If you have a strong relationship, you naturally want more contact with that person, you're going to enjoy being with them in person -- it's not as if being an internet friend with someone is going to make you say "ewww, I don't want to meet you face to face"...

Another counterargument to raise is... the amount of time teenage girls spend on the telephone, as opposed to their male counterparts. That might make him see that, for a stereotypical woman, simply talking to someone, even when they aren't in the same room, is a bonding experience.

Re: Internet Relationships

[izhilzha.livejournal.com]

Another counterargument to raise is... the amount of time teenage girls spend on the telephone, as opposed to their male counterparts.

An awesome point. :-) Though I, myself, detested phone-talking as a teenager...I do quite a lot of it now, as well as online/email contact.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Scones for all!!!

[friede.livejournal.com]

Hear hear!

And I say that as a person who was decidedly decieved by a person online, which changed some of my policies, but not my core belief that the Internet (used properly) brings more people of like minds together than it alienates.

[dr-c.livejournal.com]

Well, that may be true for men -- or most men, anyway -- but I don't think it's equally true for women,

I don't think it's men/women at all, or even (Myers-Briggs) Thinker/Feeler; I think it's Intuitive/Sensor-- that is, those to whom ideas are primary, in contrast to those who deal more in physical objects. (In particular, it would surprise me if "gesture and tone of voice" were somehow more generally significant to males than to females!)

[shoebox2.livejournal.com]

Of course the online haunts that I frequent aren't really the type to attract anyone with ulterior motives.

Yeah, ditto...albeit, some days I wonder.

Fascinating essay, Syn. I know that the few times I've met people in RL that I've gotten to know on a message forum I've found them much easier to talk to than usual with new acquaintances.

The comparison to a snail-mail correspondence is interesting; I think that in some ways the Net bond may be even stronger, because the medium of communication is more immediate/informal/specific to the other's interests.

[lizbee.livejournal.com]

*brings pumpkin scones to the tea party*

Which is to say that I do agree, having met my current crop of RL friends online.

[infiniteviking]

Interesting way of breaking it down. You may have something there; most males in my acquaintance would rather interact by developing some mutual project than by engaging in conversation. (Of course some, of both genders, mistake conversation for a chance to lecture, which does little for one-on-one bonding but can occasionally be useful in mob situations. ;)

Anyway, that's a sweet meme, and you're definitely on my list. *toddles off to post it*

[reveilles.livejournal.com]

I'm looking forward to meeting you in RL someday. :) I'm amused now when jcobleigh starts talking about something you said or did. He read your blog posts over my shoulder enough times that he decided to subscribe to them. He often tells me about what you've been up to before I find out myself. :) He doesn't consider you a friend, really, but if we lived in the same town, you'd be someone he would be comfortable being friends with. How does that sort of relationship get categorized? :)