ESSAY ADDENDA: More "Deeply Horrible" Stuff, from the Presentation

[rj_anderson]

There were a few things in the oral presentation that didn't make it into the essay, or at least not in such a detailed form, so I'm adding them in here. The presentation followed pretty much the same thought flow as the essay, but I think I did a better job of backing up some of my arguments in the presentation. So here's the Special Bonus Section of the game, for those playing at home:

What is Redemption, Anyway?

Before we go talking about whether or not Snape will be redeemed, it's important to determine just what kind of redemption we're talking about.

1. In a general literary context redemption usually refers to a formerly bad or unpleasant character showing a change of heart and proving his moral worth by some great, noble action -- such as Boromir giving up his life to try and save Pippin and Merry from the Orcs in LotR -- the character redeems himself




2. If the character survives, then we expect to see an obvious, marked positive change in their behaviour and relations to others, so we know their redemption is genuine -- in context of HP this would mean that Snape would experience some dramatic change of heart, do some heroic thing for Harry and from that point on we would see him behave more graciously in a social context -- more Lupinesque

However, root idea of "redemption" is a financial transaction -- to be purchased or bought back -- the person is being redeemed by a price paid by another. This is the Christian theological concept of redemption as well

This may mean that a redeemed person does not show any immediate or dramatic change in their nature or behaviour -- of course, if they truly appreciate and are grateful for their redemption then they will want to become a better person, but it may not happen easily -- could this be more along the lines of what JKR has in mind with Snape?

Later, having established that JKR's Christianity does, by her own admission, have an influence on the outcome of the books, I came back to the subject of redemption in the Biblical sense and its possible impact on Snape's character arc, as well as including some thoughts on this motif in the Narnia books (since JKR unabashedly acknowledges her love of and indebtedness to that series as well):

Has Snape Already Been Redeemed?

In Christian theology you cannot and do not redeem yourself -- you are redeemed by the grace of God when you turn to Him in despair for your sins (repentance) and accept His payment on your behalf.

...it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ... (1 Pet. 1:18-19)

This seems to be borne out in HP where Snape is concerned: Snape repented when he left the DE's and cast himself on Dumbledore's mercy, but it was Dumbledore who redeemed him and saved him from Azkaban, Snape didn't redeem or save himself.

Even so, it's true that if a person truly appreciates what they have been redeemed from, their lives will change. The question is, how quickly will they change, and in what ways? It may not be at the speed or in the ways we expect. The Narnia books show that people may be attractive and polite and seem to do all the right things, but end up making wrong choices in the end (Susan), while some struggle and end up hurting others and themselves before they overcome (Edmund, Eustace); and quite unattractive, harsh-spoken or depressive people may turn out to be heroes (Trumpkin, Puddleglum) -- JKR appears to be working with a similar spectrum of characters in her books -- nobody is all bad or all good, and it takes time for people to learn and grow. This may well be true of Snape.

And, of course, this would be further complicated by the question of just how much of his nasty behaviour is exaggerated (or at least, deliberately unrestrained) on account of his need to preserve his cover as a Voldemort sympathizer.

Finally, and less importantly, when discussing in the early part of the presentation whether or not JKR's comments about Snape in interviews should be taken at face value, I mentioned the Rickman factor -- that JKR was not only delighted with AR being cast in the part, but that he was in fact her first pick for the role -- and suggested that if Jo had really wanted the audience to dislike Snape and have no sympathy with him, she chose the wrong actor. :)

Anyway, I think those were the only really significant departures from or additions to what I'd written in the essay. So... now you know what you missed!

*******************
ETA: kizmet_42 wrote something in an e-mail regarding the essay that I think worth reposting here, as I can see that I didn't make myself quite clear on this particular point:

I doubt very strongly that Harry and Snape will ever have any sort of non-adversarial relationship. When Snape looks at Harry, he sees James. But since James is dead and Harry can not possibly make the apologies that Snape needs to hear from James, the reconciliation is just not possible. ...

Besides, reconciliation between [Harry and Snape] would be too tidy, something I think Rowling has avoided since the first book. There are far too many loose strands that may or may not be resolved by the time the series is over, but the fact remains that in real life we have relationships that are tinged with hatred. I don't think Harry or Snape will overcome their mutual antipathy.

However, I actually agreed with her, and said so in my reply:

I don't think Snape and Harry will ever be holding hands and skipping through meadows together, or even willingly spending time in the same room. What I meant by "resolve their mutual hostility" was not "become friends" so much as "declare a cease-fire". And I do think that a measure of mutual understanding will be involved in that -- but that's not to say it will be a complete understanding of the sort that eliminates differences and draws two people together. There's just too much baggage there.

I see Snape and Harry, if they both survive the books, living out the rest of their lives in a kind of wary truce, avoiding each other as much as possible. That's how I've portrayed them in the post D&L works -- neither one really wants anything to do with the other, and makes little secret of that fact. However, Harry no longer mistakes Snape for an enemy, and Snape has a grudging respect for Harry's role in stopping Voldemort. And if they do end up in a room together, they manage to be reasonably civil... provided the encounter doesn't last too long. :)

I hope that makes things a bit more clear.

Comments

[labellerose.livejournal.com]

Thanks for sharing your insightful presentation! I enjoyed reading it and it's given me much food for thought.

Resolving their hostility

[lesserstorm.livejournal.com]

On the subject of possible reconciliation between Snape and Harry, I think JKR has set up something absolutely brilliant from a plot and structural point of view. The key requirements of any kind of better understanding between them have to be for Snape to realise that, even if he can't forgive James, that Harry is not his father and for Harry to realise that, even if he still finds Snape's personality unpleasant, he can rely on and even respect Snape's character and his actions in the context of the war.

Up to this point in the series, the things preventing this have been Snape's holding onto old grudges and Harry's childhood assumptions about his parents being good. Once Harry starts glimpsing the truth about the past, (and also once he starts reacting with both the maturity and the willingness to question what he has previously been given to believe of a 15 year old rather than an 11-year-old) the foundations of their animosity must be shaken. And that can be seen in OotP, as Harry realises in horror what his father was really like as a teenager. Although there is not the same evidence of the process beginning for Snape, I am inclined to believe that delving too much into Harry's childhood memories through the occlumency lessons might have a similar effect. And also that, as they return to a war footing, Dumbledore would be more justified in demanding Snape lay aside his grudges. At this point in the series, as a situation becomes more serious it would be much harder for a writer to maintain the status quo and yet still to bring her readers with you.

Except that JKR has created a situation where Snape's hatred of Harry is enraged and inflamed all over again by what he sees as an absolute violation, not just that Harry is like his father, but that in rummaging through Snape's pensieve he has earned Snape's hatred again in his own right.

Ironically, this is the very point which may start to give Harry sympathy for his worst teacher. And if Harry had followed that sympathy up with a heartfelt apology and greater outward respect for Snape, I think we might have seen more understanding and potentially reconciliation begin. But with what I consider an absolute masterstroke (from the point of view of structuring the story) Harry is immediately plunged into a situation where he holds Snape entirely accountable for his godfather' s death. He is wrong and in fact unreasonable to do so, but this also seems to be the only way he can deal with his own guilt and grief. So it seems unlikely that either Harry or Snape will be taking any steps towards each other at any time soon.

And I think that will enable JKR to spin out the dramatic interaction between them for another two books in a way that would not be reasonable without renewed and very emotional reasons for their hatred.

But that is also the reason why I think that some degree of reconciliation or regained respect between Harry and Snape will be absolutely essential to the overall series. Without it, she has gone to a great deal of effort to maintain a "static" relationship as part of the general background to the plot; with a future reconciliation to come, all this work is investment in what could be a really big payoff for the reader. Of course the question then becomes whether Snape will be alive to experience it.

Re: Resolving their hostility

[rj-anderson.livejournal.com]

*applauds* Well said! I think you're quite right. And there definitely has to be some sort of payoff. I just can't take seriously the idea some people seem to have (and JKR keeps trying to tease us with), that Snape is going to turn out to be evil after all and basically vindicate all of Harry's worst suspicions of him. Even just from a purely literary point of view, that would be a rubbishy conclusion to the whole Snape-Harry dynamic, and I just can't see JKR doing that.

The closest I can get to the idea is for Snape to turn against Harry at the end, not because he's always been sekritly evil and just biding his time until he could prove his loyalty to Voldemort, but because Harry does something so shocking and so horrible to him that it actually pushes Snape over the edge. And I really don't see JKR doing that either, because it wouldn't work unless Harry (and the reader) realized Snape's defection was Harry's fault, and that would make Harry really unsympathetic to the reader just when JKR wants us to identify with him the most. I can't really see that happening either.

Re: Resolving their hostility

[kerravonsen]

that Snape is going to turn out to be evil after all
(boggle) That would be so crappy. And undermine everything we've been seeing about how being "nice" is not the same as being "good". If she does this, I'll... I'll... rip up the book in which it happens, and stomp on the pieces.

Re: Resolving their hostility

[lesserstorm.livejournal.com]

Yes - this has been built up into something too significant to leave unresolved.

I would actually be more inclined to believe that JKR would leave the Draco-Harry dynamic unresolved than the Snape-Harry one. Despite Draco's popularity, the trouble between him & Harry really forms a much smaller part of the books to date than Snape's backstory and his complicated & messy relationship with Harry do.If this isn't building towards some sort of climax or resolution, then the previous books really needed a lot more editing In OotP particularly, she could have let the Harry -Snape antagonism die down gradually if she wasn't preparing to something more dramatic with it in future.

I do think that how that resolution happens (and whether it is for good or ill) is still very much up for grabs. I'm afraid Snape is quite likely to die a heroic death, though if he does, I don't think it's likely to be as a result of Harry's actions any more - that would be too repetitive of Sirius' death.

Re: Resolving their hostility

[purplerebecca.livejournal.com]

*joins in applauding your comment*

[shellebelle93.livejournal.com]

*sigh* You say stuff so much better than I could...:-)

[mingbutterfly.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for posting this. Not having had the presence of mind to take notes, I was worried that I'd mixed up some of your points. :-) I thought you gave a brilliant talk, and I especially liked the distinctions you drew between different sorts of redemption.

After thinking it over, I wonder if it might be option b, followed by option a... Dumbledore redeems Snape and then, at some future point in the series (along the lines of your "want[ing] to become a better person") Snape acts in a redemptive way on his own, perhaps because Dumbledore is no longer available. (Which I think will happen, unfortunately--and yet is one of the only reasons I can imagine Harry and Snape finding common ground, given that Dumbledore is so important to both of them.)

So I guess while I am chuckling madly here over your use of "Lupinesque," I wonder if Snape won't eventually behave in a way that's more "Dumbledoresque." At least... that might mean he's going to live a long, long time? ;-) Thanks for the summary and much food for thought.

[kerravonsen]

Snape acts in a redemptive way on his own, perhaps because Dumbledore is no longer available.
What a good idea. If Dumbledore dies (which would be dramatic and angstful and not all that improbable), then Snape could well be thrust into a position of greater responsibility (either within the Order, or at Hogwarts, or both). It could be an opportunity of drawing together -- or, it could, as seems to happen so often between Snape and Harry, yet another round of mutual hatred and hostility, if one or the other or both of them blames the other one for Dumbledore's death.

[mafdet.livejournal.com]

Thank you for sharing and posting this! Very insightful and very interesting.

I wish I could have gone to ConventionAlley...oh well, maybe next time!

[kalinalea.livejournal.com]

Oh, I enjoyed this! Thanks so much for posting it.

I agree with your vision for the post-war Snape/Harry relationship, should they both live to enjoy one. I'd like to see them in some sort of truce, but anything more than that and I'd take a lot of convincing to find it anything but annoyingly pat.

With regard to this:

Speaking of his life before conversion, Paul described himself as "a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man," who hated Christians and attempted to wipe them out because of "ignorance and unbelief." Substitute "Muggles" or "Mudbloods" for "Christians" in the verse, and it could easily be a description of the Death Eater Severus Snape.

Reading this made me remember that I've always wondered what sort of Death Eater Snape made. Was he raping and pillaging, or was he quietly making deadly potions in someone's back room? Was he acting on orders because he wanted to be a member of a certain club, or was he truly committed to genocide? It's all reprehensible, of course, and it doesn't alter your argument either way, but it shades the character slightly differently to imagine him as a violent, vicious man and makes his conversion - and Dumbledore's faith in him - seem a bit more dramatic. It would have to have been an awfully convincing conversion for Dumbledore to say, "Hey, I know what - let's have you work with children. Including the ones whose entire families you were recently trying to kill." It will truly be fascinating to see how all of this will ultimately be explained.

Again, great stuff, Rebecca. Thanks for posting!

RE: Footnotes/Essay

[amanuet.livejournal.com]

I don't have the time to read your essay on your blog (sorry...I just go back from vacation, school starts next week and so I'm kind of flipping out). Anywho, I was so curious to find out what you had said at the convention (being a D&L patriot and all ;] ) that I was excited to hear that you had posted it!

Enough blabbing -- I was wondering if you could please send me the complete essay (with footnotes and all) because I think another perspective would help me greatly in my Snape-fic that I'm working on. My email is pepino51@rcn.com (mailto:pepino51@rcn.com). Also, does this word format also have the aspects added from your oral presentation or is it soley the written copy? If it is, I'll just come back and read the oral presentation parts later. Thank you so much!

Kryssy (p.s. I'm glad that you and Teri had an awesome time at the convention. Hopefully I'll make it to a convention in the future :] )